Social Media Revolution in the Workplace (IITMAANA Event)

Social Media Revolution in the Workplace (IITMAANA Event)

December 3, 2019 4 By Kody Olson


Kaushik Raghunath: Thanks everyone for showing
up. My name is Kaushik and I’m an office bearer of the IITMAANA Bay Area Chapter. Since a
lot of you might not know what that means I’m going to take the trouble of expanding
that full acronym. So it is Indian Institute of Technology Madras
Alumni Association North America. So we organize a bunch of events through the
year, some technical and some cultural, and we just decided to pick one of the hot topics
of the year which is obviously social media, social computing and we have a fantastic lineup
of analysts and a very capable moderator with us now. Before we get started the founder of the Pan
IIT group has a small announcement to make and soon after that I’ll hand over the mic
to Paige. So without further ado let me just get started
with a short announcement. Thanks guys. Monishi Sanyal: Hi folks. Monishi Sanyal from
IIT Madras, but to, to be correct I’m one of the co-founders of the Pan IIT group. The
Pan IIT’s the composition of all the seven campuses of the IIT in India which is Indian
Institute of Technology. I just have a small announcement to make.
Our next major event, in fact that’s a Pan IIT event, is gonna be on May 16th and it’s
the first ever Pan IIT research summit and we’re kind of holding this around the visit
of our great and honorable Professor Ashok Jhunjhunwala who is visiting on that day. He’s got the Padma Shri award and several
other awards for his work on, on rural advancement using technology. So he’s gonna be visiting
and we’re putting together a crack Pan IIT panel from all the other IIT’s also, and you
might have seen the picture of Prith Banarji of HP announcing the Singapore set up. He’s
also gonna be on our panel; he’s confirmed that. And we have another, a number of others
who will be joining. So there’s gonna be a morning session and
the advantage is it’s on the day after TiEcon which is on 14th and 15th of May, so to facilitate
this for our East Coast people we are doing it in the morning so they can leave on time.
So please mark that in your calendars. It’s May 16th, Sunday. Thank You. Kaushik Raghunath: Okay. So thanks for the
announcement. I guess we’re ready to get started, so please join me in welcoming all of our
panelists and Paige Finkelman right here who’s gonna be the moderator for the evening. [applause] Paige Finkelman: Thank you. Hi guys. How’s
it going? voice in audience: [inaudible] Paige Finkelman: Great. As Kaushik mentioned
I’m Paige Finkelman and I’ll be moderating tonight’s discussion. First off I’d like to thank everyone in the
IITMAANA which is a complex acronym for joining us and many thanks to Google for hosting us. As you might have heard the, the topic for
tonight’s panel discussion is the social media revolution in the workplace. So really the goal of tonight’s gathering
is to engage with assembled panel of experts to my right to answer questions about the
adoption of social computing in the enterprise as well as the cultural effects of set adoption
and the best practices they’ve learned in the field. I want to specify that this discussion will
focus on internal tools as opposed to external tools; just to clarify. Before our panelists introduce themselves,
I wanted to take a quick poll of the audience to get a sense and a pulse on your use of
social too, tools, both inside and outside of the workplace. So if you wouldn’t mind bear with me and sort
of do this cheesy exercise by raising your hand and my question for you is: Do you use,
as a consumer, with your friends a soc, a social network to connect with them? That would include things like Facebook, LinkedIn,
HighFive, MySpace, Orkut – Alright. I’m gonna go with that Oliver Marks clearly
doesn’t [laughs] even raise his hand. So I’m gonna say the majority of you – unidentified voice: [inaudible] Paige Finkelman: Far majority. [laughter] Who doesn’t? unidentified voice: If you don’t, leave. [laughter] Paige Finkelman: We miss you. [laughter] We’re waiting for you to join. So my second question is, by show of hands,
how many of you leverage tools like Social CRM, wiki’s, blogs or social software in the
workplace? [people in audience raise hands] Oh. More than I thought. Okay. Cool. And that, my last question is, by a show of
hands, when you’re working is email the principle form of communication you use to communicate
internally with your co-workers? [people in audience raise hands] That’s a fair number. Okay. So, just wanted to get a little pulse. So generally speaking the majority of this
audience uses social applications in the workplace, except for a couple of guys in the back. Majority
of you use email at work and there are quite a few adopters of, of social tools within
the workplace, which is good. So I just wanted to get a sense of what sort
of caliber the audience was. So we’re gathered here today to delve a little
more into the second, third, second and third questions, which is the usage of these tools
in the enterprise. You know the, the answers to second and third
questions are changing rather rapidly and have been for quite some time. More and more
enterprises are acknowledging the value of collaborative technologies and these tools
liberate us from the constraints of legacy communications, like email. Social tools also provide business managers
with access to the right information at the right time through a web of interconnected
applications, services, and devices. Ultimately collaboration encourages the collective
intelligence of many to bubble up to the surface, flattening the organization which translates
to a competitive advantage by increasing productivity, agility, et cetera. So as technology is shifting away from a data
centric perspective to a more people centric perspective, a pro, a profound shift in the
way we work and communicate is occurring. Work, work groups are no longer limited by
geography or time zones. I don’t know if you all recall the author
Thomas L. Friedman. He wrote a book quite some time ago acknowledging that the world
has indeed become quite flat, at least from a collaboration perspective. So why is this important? Why should we care? For starters, it marks a significant change
in the ways companies source business intelligence; it gives everyone in the ori, organization
an equal opportunity platform to be heard without needing to yell. Humans are inherently
social; look around, we’re all here in this room to engage and interact and ultimately,
hopefully learn from each other. And now that the technology has arrived to
mimic the social nature inherent in people, adoption of social computing is on the rise;
bringing with it valuable intelligence that can solve complex problems. And not only are these problems being solved,
but we’re learning every step of the way the best practices and the cultural impact those
technologies are having on work culture. So I was looking around for a statistic to
share with you about what, how big this market is. And the most accurate one I could find
was from ReadWriteWeb, weed, white, web and it was from April 2008 and it said the Enterprise
2.0, which is loosely the term used to define collaborative technologies, it’s very umbrella
term, was to become a 4.6 billion dollar industry by 2013. That’s, that’s, that’s a chunk of change.
And there’s significant vendors here in this panel that represent pretty significant organizations
that are clearly have something to say, so with that I will, without further ado I’d
like our panelists to introduce themselves, starting with my friend and IIT Alumni, Anshu. Please state your name, who you work for,
and what you do for your employer. Anshu Sharma: Go IIT, especially [inaudible]. So my name is Anshu Sharma. I work for a company
called Salesforce.com. I run product management; I’m a vice-president of product management
for the platform group. And what I do for the company is help figure out our vision
for our products which in this context probably most relevant product is called Chatter, which
is our social collaboration tool, which extends our platform and C-item capabilities to make
it a more, more social tool. And I think I’ll have a lot of words to say
about these things. The 4.6 billion dollar number was interesting.
I always wonder where the last 100 million dollar comes from when you come up with 2013
numbers, but that’s a ReadWriteWeb question, not a Paige question. Paige Finkelman: It’s true. [laughter] Do you wanna share your mic? [laughter] Raju Vegesna: Hi, I’m Raju Vegesna. I’m the
evangelist for Zoho. My responsibility is to just get the word out of, out and educate
many users about Zoho. We’re a company based in Pleasanton, but most
of the, well 90, more than 90 percent of the company is just behind the IIT campus in,
in Chaley. So we, we have been around for 14 years doing
private, bootstrap, profitable, and doing well so far. Oliver Marks: Hello everybody. I’m Oliver
Marks. I’m a [inaudible] at the Sovos Group which is a, a new company which is basically
all about enterprise collaboration consulting. And I’m the only person on this panel who’s
not a vendor. I’m actually a platform agnostic. So what I do is I go into large companies
and organize their collaboration strategy and tactics. And I actually worked inside Sony Play station
running their collaboration environment for two years which sort of informed me for a
lot of other work I’m been doing subsequently. Ross Mayfield: My name is Ross Mayfield and
I’m here to fix your email problem. [laughter] I’m with a company that’s called Socialtext.
We started back in 2002 as a Wiki platform and it evolved into a far broader platform
with everything from social spreadsheets to microblogging and activity streams. And in general what we do as a group is help
provide the tools and some of the practices for people to change and transform their businesses. Matt Tucker: I’m Matt Tucker the CTO and co-founder
from Jive Software. And so I guess if it’s a 4.6 billion dollar market, we’ll leave maybe
600 million for the rest of you guys. [laughter] Matt Tucker: I don’t know. Maybe. Ouch. [laughter] Greg Dawson: Hi, I’m Greg Dawson. I work for
a small startup that just went public a couple years back named Google. And I work on Google
Wave as a product manager. Matt Tucker: What’s your real name. [laughter] Matt Tucker: What’s your real name? Greg Dawson: My superhero name is Dr. Wave. [laughter] Paige Finkelman: And Greg just for everyone’s
benefit, can you stand up real quick? [pause] Greg’s actually got jeans with the Wave logo
monogrammed onto the pockets. [laughter] Yeah, he’s that into it. [laughs] Greg Dawson: Hey, you know gotta have superhero
jeans. Ross Mayfield: Wrangler, that’s old school. Paige Finkelman: Sure, sure. Okay, thank you gentlemen. I wanted to say a quick word about the format.
We’re gonna engage in the panel conversation for about an hour and then we’ll open it up
for Q & A. There’s a microphone here in the middle of the room. I also wanted to mention, for those of you
with devices and are on Twitter, the hash tag for this event is IIT; it’s pretty straightforward. So I’ll be refreshing the search page and
getting questions that way. If you’re a little afraid of the mic, please feel free to use
social microblogging tools in the social media revolution in the workplace panel. [laughs] Okay. So I have a few questions. Actually
I wanna; I wanna talk to Ross real quick. So Ross you’ve been in the, the Wiki business
for quite some time. Ross Mayfield: Yes, I have. Paige Finkelman: There’s a lot of vendors
in this landscape. It can be a little overwhelming for someone
because it’s so saturated. How do I know which Wiki is best for my problem? Ross Mayfield: So I don’t think it’s just
which Wiki. I think, there’s a lot of choice in the market, which is a really good thing.
The best place to try to figure out what the real difference is, is kind of where did these
companies start. Everybody, whenever you’re starting, it’s,
it’s kind of a funny thing. Every single company starts with a single product and every single
product starts even with a single feature. And the DNA of what you are is very much from
where you began; the early customers that you got; the problems that you tried to solve;
the culture your built in your community; within your company and the community around
it. So for us, we chose kind of the starting point
of a Wiki which is the more collaborative of the applications. It’s actually the most
widely used behind the firewall, unlike let’s say the public facing the social media, there’s
other things that have grown, let’s say even beyond, let’s say Wikipedia to a degree. But I think also, I mean everybody has a different
start. You started off as a, doing public facing forums; you started off as kind of
the daughter of all demos or as an, well Google is, is, started as a search company, right? And, and I, I think this might be – Paige Finkelman: They’re a startup too, by
the way. Ross Mayfield: Well they do all kinds of – right Greg Dawson: [inaudible] Ross Mayfield: Really? [laughter] The, no but, but really I think if you, if
you look at it through the lens of where did they start and take a look at their products;
the capabilities around it; and what their customers have actually achieved with it,
that that’s, they’re very clear differences in how they’ve [ ]. In, in both the depth
of what they did and then what they discovered along the path. And actually within all these vendors, every
single vendor has a product within their platform that’s very different. Like right now one
of the things that we offer is the only microblogging solution that’s integrated with a broader
platform; that broader social platform, you could say. But so I, I think there’s enough differences.
People just have to do their homework. Paige Finkelman: So Oliver as the only non-vendor
– I love that you’re in the middle – Oliver Marks: Yeah. Paige Finkelman: and I know Oliver on a personal
level that you’re, you’re pragmatic and you’re quite a realist, so are we going about this
the wrong way? And my question really is should we instead
of being social for the sake of being social, instead start with the problem and try to
solve it, evaluating the best tools without sort of thinking from the C-Suite down, what’s
our social medial strategy? What’s our, what’s our collaborative strategy? Are we, are we
going about this the wrong way, is, is my question. Oliver Marks: There is no one, one way, I
mean, there, so there’s the, to set the stage for this year, it is a very crowded market.
We’re sort of an embarrassment to Rich, because all the different technologies out there. But the, the caveat to that is that most companies
now are awash with, with dozens of different systems. So any sizeable sort of company will
have social tanks. Jive; somebody will be using being Google
legally or illegally in the company. Somebody else will be using Zoho probably and Salesforce
is another component. So to, to address the problem, essentially
what you’re seeing from a high level is that the C-Suite guys are looking down and they’re
seeing all these mushrooms growing up; all these little what I call collaboration silos
building up. So the worst case scenario is where you have
dozens of different user names and passwords with dozens of different systems. So while you might have 100 people in say
a sales and marketing department working and interacting wonderfully well, in say Jive,
ClearSpace or Jive Social Business. The people outside that don’t necessarily see that. And they, if, if there are fiefdoms and political
currents and undercurrents running through the company, which are, frankly there almost
invariably is, then these people will tend to actually sort of retreat into their castle
and, and, and actually use the technology the exactly the opposite way for which it
was designed. And I see this all the time. So I think this
year, sort of to summarize, there is a tremendous amount of tremendously good technology out
there. There’s an awful lot of people jumping on band wagons and doing me too technologies.
Twitter came along and now there’s dozens of Twitter variants of varying degrees of,
of, of use, I guess. But to Paige’s point, you really have to put
the, think very clearly through what it is you’re doing and why you’re doing it; just
as you would with anything else in life. Pick the appropriate tool for the appropriate job. Paige Finkelman: Um. To fix a, to fix a problem. Oliver Marks: To fix a specific problem. Paige Finkelman: Not to be social – Matt Tucker: Paige, are we allowed to just
jump in and, and keep answering the question? Paige Finkelman: Absolutely not. You’ll speak
when spoken to. [laughs] [laughter] Matt Tucker: This is going to be the most
– Paige Finkelman: No, go ahead, Matt. Matt Tucker: boring panel ever. [laughter] Paige Finkelman: [laughs] What would you like
to share? Matt Tucker: Is this live, I don’t know. unidentified voice: It is. Matt Tucker: Excellent. So one way that I
take that question and, and this is an interesting report from Gartner that came out, I think
about two weeks ago. And one of the statistics was that 70 percent
of all IT-led social initiatives would fail and – Paige Finkelman: What was the percentage?
Sorry. Matt Tucker: Seventy percent. unidentified voice: Something like that. Paige Finkelman: Seventy percent. Matt Tucker: Something like that. And, and
if it’s a business-led social initiative much, much more successful. And that’s absolutely
what we see every day. And it’s really, are you approaching this
from an infrastructure perspective? Is this a tool? Or are we actually trying to solve
business problems? And we absolutely always look for the business
buyer. We know that those social initiatives are much more successful. There are IT departments that get it that
are focused on, on solving business problems and can do it the right way, but in terms
of what is the right way to do this: start with a business buyer; start with how do we
actually leverage these tools to solve business problems; and they’re invariably much more
successful roll outs. Paige Finkelman: So, so if your current buyer
is a line of business buyer, do you ultimately want to be on the CIO agenda, and have him
earmarking dollars? Do we want collaborative technologies and Enterprise 2.0 technologies
to be their own bucket? Matt Tucker: We like the CIO budgets, absolutely. Paige Finkelman: Yeah, sure. [laughs] Matt Tucker: And, and this is a market that’s
interesting because it is still very early and there is no line item in most IT budgets
for social software still. Maybe next year. There’s just starting to be a shift and, but
it is still taking money from some existing project in order to do this spend on social. And ultimately yes that’s probably where the
budget will live, but the way that most of these projects play out is business buyers
sometimes they will pull together, it’s the CMO; every once in a while it’s HR; sometimes
it’s the sales organization that wants to change the way that they’re working together. And they will pool and their, their resources
they will go to IT, they will say, “Obviously you guys were on our infrastructure and maybe
it comes out of your budget, but here’s the problems we’re actually trying to solve.” So from a budget perspective, probably it
does ultimately come from the CIO office, but more successful if it’s not actually being
driven from there, at least for now. Paige Finkelman: Gotcha, Greg. Greg Dawson: So, but I think the issue comes
up that Oliver was talking about earlier, that it’s not just that HR or sales will,
will get together and wanna do this. What happens is they all wanna do their own
solutions. They all have their own sets of problems and they wanna solve their own sets
of problems. And the problem specifically with social media
software which is a sort of all encompassing word and I don’t know exactly what we’re talkin’
about there, but, but the problem with social media software is that like – Matt Tucker: Social business media. Greg Dawson: I’m sorry, social business, social
business media software. Is that, is that – [laughter] No, but the, the problem is that if it starts
to break down, if sales is using one set of things and HR is using another set of things,
but the problem is that’s the way enterprises work. Like they’re, they are their own little
fiefdoms. So what do we do about it? Like how do you, how do you start to make it so
you can have a comprehensive set up within your enterprise and people can actually get
the information they need even though the HR group is not gonna talk to the sales group
and wants to have a different solution? Paige Finkelman: Uh-oh. Anshu, do you wanna
talk? Anshu Sharma: Sure. I like to talk. [laughter] I was counting the number of minutes I can
stay quiet; it was a bet with a friend. It’s past my bedtime. I think two things I want to say. One is,
there is a way of addressing that problem. But how many people here went to school before
there was Facebook? [laughter – people in audience raise hands} Right? [laughter] And what happened was we all survived, right?
We built some friendships, we made some friends, real life friends, and it was all good. In
fact, Facebook, if you remember, evolved. Initially it wouldn’t let you in unless you
were at a particular college, right? If I’m not wrong about that. And over period of time, people realized that,
“You know what I just don’t want to talk to my students in my college, I wanna actually
talk to my friend who graduated last year.” And slowly Facebook opened up and it spread
from there, right? Because to solve a particular problem for
a particular set of users did not come to me and say, “Hey, you should have a social
network because how can you be in school and not have a social network or be in business?” So any of you who’s ever used CC, BCC, received
an email from an application that you didn’t want to receive, or had to log in to an application
in three different places to find out whether your paycheck has arrived or not arrived,
has a fundamental problem, which is it’s inconvenient. And there are two parts that will help us
get over the hump if there is a hump. One is there are, one is, yes it’s Wednesday,
I will tell you the hump joke later on. [laughs] [laughter] Paige Finkelman: No. I don’t think we can
let this go, I think we have to talk about it now. Anshu Sharma: Alright. [laughs] [laughter] That, I’ll delegate that to you. Paige Finkelman: So – Anshu Sharma: So I was gonna say, so the way
we’ve seen people start beginning to use our charter product, for example, is they might
start off in a sales and marketing team or they might start out in an HR team or one
particular group, and they may be following an opportunity. Hey, this is a potential customer
of yours; I’m talking about this customer; they’re not thinking, “I’m doing social software.” Just like kids at school were not thinking
they were doing social networking because there was no such thing. They were doing homework
and they had friends they wanted to ask questions on while filling of the assignments, maybe
called cheating I suppose. But they were collaborating, right? And collaboration is good apparently. So we think that people will start using these
tools in the context of the application; so that’s one part. And as that circle of people that you need
to collaborate, not that you desire to collaborate, need to collaborate expands because once the
sales guy talks to the marketing guy for the collateral, then the contract guy gets built
in, then they have to talk someone in legal. The circle expands in a natural secure share
manner and that’s the responsibility of us vendors to make sure that’s both natural as
well as secure and sharable. The second aspect is, once you have that in
place you need to make sure that it’s not just people talking to people, because half
my emails are not coming from people; they’re coming from systems that say, “Our bug system
yesterday analyzed 73,000 bugs and here is two bugs that failed” or I’m getting an email
that your expense report is three days late. I don’t want that in an email because that’s
not the right way for the email system, these enterprise applications. So the problem, the second problem we’re trying
to solve in my opinion is systems talking to us as human beings at, not interrupting
me, me going there and being able to search on a field and say, “Give me all the things
related to expense reporting” for example. I think if we can make these two problems
solve, which is what Charter is basically designed to focus on, then I think you have
solving the specific problem for a specific set of users and there’s a natural evolution.
And I’m sure a lot of other tools are trying to do the same thing. And – Paige Finkelman: So it’s an issue of productivity… Anshu Sharma: And if you’re gonna do that
then – Paige Finkelman: …is what you’re saying. Anshu Sharma: No, I’m not saying productivity.
I’m saying the end user has a specific problem and we need to help them solve that and as
a result of that there will be, you can call it productivity, agility, there’ll be hundreds
of things that happen today as a result of email, that will happen faster and in a less
inconvenient manner for the end user. So that’s, and productivity is part of it. Paige Finkelman: So, so on that note, email,
the dirty word, in the collaboration space. I did have a question for Greg, Dr. Wave. Greg Dawson: Yes. Paige Finkelman: So there’s probably a lot
of Google people in the room, outnumbered and outgunned, but I’m gonna ask it. Wave has been labeled as a hosted conversation
that provides business context to communication and collaboration. I just, I just did your
elevator pitch. Greg Dawson: Alright. Paige Finkelman: So Wave does not claim to
replace email, but rather downsize your inbox. Are you simplifying my workflow or complicating
it ’cause there’s something else I have to check in with? Greg Dawson: Well, so I, I think the, so the
core problem is that people think, people use email ’cause they’re trying to get something
done. And, and, and I think, as we were talking about earlier, like they, there is massive
amounts of email coming to people that they don’t care about, that’s not useful and then
when people are actually trying to get something done with it, they’re, and they refer to it
as collaboration through email; it’s cumbersome, it’s – I hate to use the word linear. Where,
where you’re just sort of trying to go back and forth and it’s not very efficient. So what we’re trying to do with Wave is take
another approach. Rather than thinking about how can we make email better? Just think about
like what are people actually trying to get done? And what people are typically trying to get
done are sort of having conversations about things and trying to come up with an end product
through, over the course of that conversation. And so that’s, that’s really what Wave is
designed to be is to allow people to, to do that smoothly. What we have been finding is that people will,
as they’re using email, after they’ve used Wave, they start to then, I think the best
comment we had is, is “Wave made me resent email.” Because once you start using it then
you realize, “Yeah, there are all these ways, ways that email’s breaking down.” So I guess we’re not tryin’ to say that we’re
replacing email. What we’re trying to say is we’re giving people a way to collaborate
that they used to try to do in email. If that makes sense. Paige Finkelman: So Oliver, you have some
comments? Oliver Marks: Yeah, just a, a bigger point,
I actually did a white paper of for Cisco that I think they’re finally gonna publish
later this month on the future of work. And one of the points I make in that is that
we, we basically have slown up on a very old-fashioned postal and document paradigm. So while Wave is a wonderful tool, the, most
of the people on the planet who don’t work for Google and who aren’t sort of spending
14 hours a day looking at their browser and aware of all the latest web tool technologies
coming out every day and so on, are still very much stuck in a, practically a hundred
year old way of thinking. Where you, you email is effectively like letters coming through
your letter box, except that there is no, there’s no regulation of it. I mean it’s just
pouring in and you’re like Pavlov’s dog reacting to it and constantly – Greg Dawson: [inaudible] anymore involved. Oliver Marks: Yeah. Greg Dawson: It’s basically. Oliver Marks: Yeah, I mean fundamentally the,
the way people work nothing has changed there. So you, you substitute the, the big gray filing
cabinet, for a, for a Sharepoint or whatever it is. But you’ve got this fundamental problem.
And this is true for all of the vendors on this panel, and through the entire industry. That is the way people work still and it’s
very, very easy to – [bad audio} unidentified voice: They shut you off. They
didn’t like what you were saying. Paige Finkelman: [laughs] [laughter] unidentified voice: Sound. Paige Finkelman: I have a control button to
shut you off. various voices: [inaudible] Oliver Marks: Yeah, I mean I, I’ve made my
point so. unidentified voice: [inaudible] Paige Finkelman: Just yell. unidentified voice: [inaudible] Paige Finkelman: Mike, can you help with the
mic? Mike: If you speak close to the mic. [pause] Mike: Testing one, two. Don’t know what happened. Paige Finkelman: Mike saves the day. Mike: Mike with the mic. Paige Finkelman: Thank you, Mike. Mike: Yeah. Oliver Marks: Yeah. So I mean that’s the fundamental
problem that, well to be fair all these vendors are doing wonderful things with their technologies,
but that is the fundamental problem we’re grappling with. So the sales guys for all of these companies
basically are going in to the room and demonstrating all these fantastic new ways of interacting,
but there is a huge training and understanding exercise. And the point Anshu was making in closing
for this point is that even though there’s an awful lot of people on Facebook, that it
still ultimately a minority for the way, particularly the way we work internally. Paige Finkelman: So if, if email, the legacy
application, is not going anywhere soon, why don’t we focus on fixing the legacy application? Anshu Sharma: I’ll take that. So that’s an
easy one. Paige Finkelman: Instead of reinventing – Anshu Sharma: Just like email didn’t make
telephones go away, right, you still use phones. Paige Finkelman: I don’t answer my phone. Anshu Sharma: I, I know I tried calling you. [laughter] But – Paige Finkelman: I blocked your calls. [laughter] Anshu Sharma: I know. You also blocked my
email and my Facebook. Paige Finkelman: I know [inaudible] Anshu Sharma: Seriously though. I don’t think
the purpose for any of our tools is actually to kill email, replace email, or anything
like that. At least it’s not for me. And I’m not even here talking just about sales
forces approach. I think none of us are, because this is alumni crowd for me; this is fellow
alumni that I’m talking to. The, I think the purpose of some of the tools
that we are building here is to make, as I said, our lives easier in different ways and
if as a consequence of that you get fewer emails and you like that, good, right? Because
nobody likes receiving 17 emails from their collaboration system either. I have a collaboration
system, that’s Consumer World, that sends me an email every time I get a mess, an email
message. I don’t actually like that. So I don’t think they’re focused on killing
email, replacing email. What we really wanna do is in an organic fashion do for the enterprises
what Facebook did for college students and consumers. And if we can do that, we’ll be helping people
collaborate with each other and getting their work done. I don’t mind if 500 years from
now there’s still an email system. I actually like email; sending one to one email when
I really need to talk to just one person. Raju Vegesna: I think as we look at it there
are, there are, it doesn’t work? unidentified voice: [inaudible] Raju Vegesna: Okay. So there are personal
communication tools like email, where – Anshu Sharma: Close to your mouth. [laughter] Raju Vegesna: where one email communication
is more inclusive than the, the like say video conferencing is more inclusive than audio
which is more inclusive than say chatting or which is more inclusive than email. So each of these, each of these systems have
their own purpose, so I will try to categorize all of these as personal communication tools. Then we have public, group or organization
specific communication tools. These include say blogs or discussion forums and, and microblogging
within the organization, several of these. But the real value comes in when you use these
individual communication tools in context with your business like when integrated with
your CRM system so when your email system talks to your CRM system, which in turn talks
to your financial system, your, your, similarly other systems your marketing, your content
systems, collaboration systems. I think when all of these are merged together
I think it can be really powerful because they are, as Anshu said, they are contextually
integrated and there is, there is greater value there. And they, each of these tools they do have
their own place in the system. Matt Tucker: So I do think we, we need to
talk about Wave and email in particular, for just one more second. And so one, one interesting thing I’ve noticed
in my network people telling me, “Okay I went and tried Wave and now I’ve come back a few
months later.” And maybe I haven’t visited it for three months and it’s kind of a ghost
town. Paige Finkelman: I actually – Matt Tucker: And it’s very consistent and
I think the reason for that is there isn’t email integration yet. And I’m sure you guys
are working on it, but how do we get sucked back – Greg Dawson: We should do email integration? unidentified voice: [inaudible] Paige Finkelman: That was one of my questions. Matt Tucker: That would have been a good question. unidentified voice: Answer it quickly. Matt Tucker: Too late, too late. [laughter] Paige Finkelman: It came better from you. [laughter] Matt Tucker: But it is critical to build bridges
back to where people already are and how do I often get sucked back into Facebook — it’s
because I get an email telling me that there’s a Facebook update and then I get sucked back
in. And that’s how we get work done; that’s how,
we do have patterns; we do have scripts that we follow; and, and email is one of them and
that is why it is so critical to build bridges between these systems. You use email as a tool to suck people back
in. And yeah, ultimately we want to get rid of some of the worst abuses of email because
it is abused all the time inside of our companies. And it is good for some stuff, but we should
also use it as a bridge. And, and there’s other ones too. So we use
Excel, we use Word; we need to use those as bridges into social software as well. If we
don’t reach back into the tools that we already use every day, then ultimately it just makes
it much harder to adopt something new. Paige Finkelman: That’s a good point. Greg Dawson: I, I gotta comment on that. Matt Tucker: It’s not a ghost town? Greg Dawson: Um, it, it’s not depending on
which part of the town you’re in. The, the, the biggest issue, and it’s funny that I’m
on a panel about social media, is that we don’t actually think of Wave as a social product.
We think of Wave as a productivity tool. It’s a place for getting things done and the,
the comparison we often kind of use is if someone gave you a car and you had no idea
what it did, you’d be like, “This is a big hunk of metal and it’s kinda strange.” But
then when you had somewhere to go, you’re like, “Oh. Well this is actually quite useful
to get me somewhere.” And Wave is a similar sort of thing where
we need to, if you don’t have something to do it in, yeah, it’s not terribly useful,
but then what people are finding is when they do have something to do in it, it is very
useful. And that’s when they get into the point where they, they get used to doing things
in, in that sort of way, and then they try to go back to email and they realize that
there were all these sort of ledges that they bumped their knees on. We are working on email integration, obviously.
But there, there’s actually – long ago in a land far, far away, that land was called
Sydney, Australia – when we were building Wave, one of the things we did build initially
was a way to, to just dump of all your email into Wave. But what we ended up finding which we thought
was kind of fascinating, is everyone started interacting – and I’m talking about Google
Wave as if you all know everything about it so, ask me questions if you don’t know – but
– Paige Finkelman: Or Tweet them. Greg Dawson: But essentially the problem that
we, we had is that everyone then started treating their Waves just like emails. People wouldn’t
edit each other’s Waves. People were, were, were not responding in the places they needed
to be responding, they just started using it like an email client and then said like,
“Wow. Wave is a pretty crappy email client.” And it turns out Wave is a pretty crappy email
client, ’cause it’s not supposed to an email client. It’s supposed to be a Wave client. So it, it’s kind of interesting that you,
you, I, I totally agree with you, that you have to build those bridges back, but at the
same time if you, if you just give everyone the easy way out, so to speak, you don’t push
yourself; you don’t, you don’t try something new because it’s just too easy to fall back
on what you’re used to doing all the time. So let me say again, we’re working on email
integration. Paige Finkelman: And, and someone commented
from the audience that Wave is really combating the, the version issue, right? You can constantly
see new versions without having to, and actually that brings to my next point. So Microsoft and IBM aren’t here tonight.
At least I don’t think they are. Anshu Sharma: There’s couple of people. Paige Finkelman: Oh, heh guys. [laughs] So [laughs] if I’m a large enterprise and
I already use Microsoft Office or Lotus Notes, no one ever got fired for buying Microsoft
or IBM. [pause] Vendors, have at it. Anshu Sharma: Are you sure? Paige Finkelman: [laughs] [laughter] Anshu Sharma: I don’t know, like who’s gonna
say, “I got fired for doing this,” right? But these are very respectable companies,
they have done amazing jobs; people have built multi-[ ] carriers [inaudible]. As someone that I may be working for these
days said, “Lotus Notes paradigm was probably built before Mark Zuckerberg was born,” right?
So, ‘conceived’ were the words that Mr. Benioff used. And I think there is something to it,
right? These email systems and Lotus systems are amazingly powerful tools from 25, 30 years
ago. And times have changed. And we wanna bring,
we as in the collective we, and that includes possibly probably the existing vendors that
are eventually gonna see the light of Chatter and Wave and all these things and come along
to the, the, the brighter side. But at the end of the day that’s history.
These are tools people have been using, it’s, they work in certain cases; clearly people
are complaining about it, certain circles. For us the focus is how do we take the, what
Facebook did for consumers, bring it to the enterprise. Everybody in this room understands how to
use Facebook. There’s no confusion. You don’t go like, “Oh, I saw this link thing, what
is that?” Like, “Do I have to click on it, double click, it’s it right click?” And we’ve been trained not just on social
software and Facebook, but actually been trained to click things. If you’ve ever used ERP application that didn’t
have a Web based interface – some of us are old enough to have worked at companies or
worked at old enough companies – where they have those kind of tools from big database
companies and such, you will realize that clicking is not supposed to be what, as deeply
engrained in our lifestyle as it is today. You didn’t ever click through your expense
report 15 years ago because there was no such thing as clicking through stuff. So all that training that’s gone into how
we use the Internet, forget even social software like Facebook, Twitter, et cetera, is training
a generation of new college graduates, existing workers, because now they have to talk to
their Dads on Facebook, to come into this new paradigm and they’re trained. I don’t
need to train you how to use Chatter because you’re already pre-trained. So I think a lot of that stuff goes away if
we think through the paradigms that customers are already used to and users are already
used to. If we try to create new paradigms completely, if I told you, I have to, in order
to come to Google’s campus you must rent a horse guard, it’d be confusing. Paige Finkelman: Or ride a bike. unidentified voice: Bingo. Paige Finkelman: I rode a Google bike earlier
today. [laughs] Ross Mayfield: Paige, so the thing to build
on that, that needs to be respected is the rate of change is a lot faster than what it
was before. The vast majority of Americans use social
media on a daily basis – even with these really large companies that you speak of, not me
– it’s kind of interesting because they’re still built on very old models of producing
these kinds of tools. When you end up having, like we have a, we
release a new version every two weeks. SharePoint releases a new version every three years,
which means that it gets implemented every four or every five years. Facebook overnight early last year changed
its entire user interface from kind of an info boxes and widgets model to a stream,
activity streams and feeds and status update model; overnight. Three hundred million Americans’
expectations about what this stuff was when they came to work changed. And the point is that, so we have to be set
up as vendors at least to keep pace with the rate of innovation that’s gonna be on the
Web and it’s always gonna be faster definitively than enterprise software. In the meantime, I think we’ve spoken enough
about like email and classical office tools and things like that, but if you think about
traditional enterprise apps, they’re all top down, highly structured, rigid business rules.
The whole goal is automate business process to drive down cost. But the point is regular employees don’t spend
all day executing regular uniform business process. They’re handling exceptions to business
process; they’re handling when the design of those tools don’t actually fit the reality
of the environment that they’re working in. And the opportunity in effect, whether it’s
some of the interesting blends of how you, we can make other enterprise apps more social.
Or you can socialize around a business record for example. What you’re really solving for is kind of
the other half of enterprise software that hasn’t existed yet. Because the best thing
we’ve got is, this really wonderful tool with email that’s actually is so flexible and so
social that we’ve been able to bend it around and attach things to it and use it for pretty
much everything. So we have to celebrate like the creation
of new modalities or at least the testing of the creation of those new modalities, but
also recognize, like as you said, it’s really damn early in this stuff. And while a lot of the vendors in this space
have been around for seven years or more or less and stuff like that, there’s still a
vast, larger opportunity and we’re not talkin’ about the market size number; that’s a, an
actual tough nut to crack. So that’s it. Paige Finkelman: Oliver, go ahead. Oliver Marks: Yeah, just one, one, one quick
point is you were saying, Ross, the American market, but in fact the world is increasingly
global as I’m sure everybody in this room is acutely aware. So a couple of years ago I was in a very stodgy
meeting in London where somebody, a whole bunch of customers, CIO type customers, one
of them said that if, if you told him a year previously that he’d be dealing with partners
in Costa Rica, he’d think you were absolutely nuts. But that’s increasingly what’s going on and
you can’t argue that email is actually quite effective on that level. It just has to be
used responsibly and the one other component is if you do actually get access to a new
collaboration system you’re gonna get your initial user name, password by email. So in
some ways it’s very foundational. Now I’m somebody that spends a lot of time
in companies actually talking about why they should adopt collaborative technology, so
I’m not being negative about it, I’m just being realistic. So – Matt Tucker: So we, we do believe that there
is a failed strategy to products which is let’s take an existing product and add some
social features, maybe it’s a content management system. I won’t name specific products here.
Maybe it’s a CRM product and you add a few really simple social features and you say,
“This is a social business strategy.” And it’s just not true. And it’s not going far enough and what this
market is becoming, it’s big enough, it’s interesting enough, there are new paradigms
of interacting and all the traditional vendors desperately want in on the hotness. They realize
that it is interesting, that what we have done in our consumer lives, it has changed,
it has changed our lives; it’s changed the way we interact. And it is fundamentally changing
the way that we work together, but just adding a few social features to an existing product,
it doesn’t ultimately work. What this market will become is a new set
of products; a new, a new paradigm and it’s very hard to take a CRM product or a content
management system, add a few social features, and truly get all the way to where you need
to go. Ross Mayfield: So you’re saying they shouldn’t
buy you and then combine the two things? [laughter] I’m just – (laughing) Matt Tucker: Well I, so I know this, this
isn’t an easy market ’cause I know a lot of the smaller vendors will, will be looking
for exits this year and maybe that’s the only option available to them – Anshu Sharma: I think that’s a low blow. Paige Finkelman: Let’s let Anshu talk. Anshu Sharma: I think you make a very good
point that you can’t just take a [inaudible] system slap some social features on – [laughter] and magically have it become social because
there’s a fundamental problem. Your system has to be Web based and if you’re
a Web based company such as the one that’s hosting this show, you have certain advantages
which is you have the capability to reach customers and users within an organization
across organization boundaries and customers across even customer boundaries based on rules,
security, sharing models and such. Having a set of users that passionately loves
your technology, be it customer relationship management, be it the platform for building
new applications – we have hundreds of applications such as risk management and others and financial
applications by our partners – having customer service and support applications. These applications need to be brought in to
the Facebook era. And while I like the way you portrayed that, I think – Matt Tucker: [inaudible] by the way. Anshu Sharma: if you can transition the users,
if you can, yeah I know it’s in jest, I am taking it as a joke – [laughter] And, so I think for a, for a company that’s
being IPO’d for a while just like my other friend on the other side, I sort of always
joke with [inaudible] search is a feature it’s not a company. So maybe CRM is just a
feature, but maybe not. I think the key point here is it’s not, we
can all take pot shots at database companies and CRM companies and search companies and
all that – I think that’s kind of silly – the key point is are we delivering a solution
that people will find useful in day to day business, and are there enough business applications
that will come alive if you provide these social capabilities and help these people
move into the Facebook era. And I think that’s what we’re looking to do
and I think we, we have a shot at it. Raju Vegesna: Also I think to run a business
we need some basic set of tools, like say CRM financial system, ERP system. These are
all the basic systems that are needed to run a business. Use the social media tools at that level,
I don’t think so. But when you, you slam the social media or integrate them on top of the
existing tools, you can be really productive and that is what we think the social media
tools add to the existing systems. And we think it is absolutely necessary that we marry
these two, these systems. Ross Mayfield: I think we can all agree with
all of our stupid jokes is there’s a chance to rethink some really good core assumptions
that we’ve had. Paige Finkelman: Yeah. Definitely. Alright, so Matt Tucker. [pause] Hi. Matt Tucker: You’re finally asking me a question? Paige Finkelman: Yeah. So it should be known
that I work for a company called TechWeb and we’re a Jive customer. I’m also a Salesforce
customer. unidentified voice: [inaudible] [laughter] Greg Dawson: Have you ever used Google? Paige Finkelman: [laughs] [laughter] [applause] I use [laughs] I use – Greg Dawson: Oh, come on don’t even say – [laughter] Paige Finkelman: I use Zoho. Anyway, so Matt Tucker, people can be resistant
to change, eh? What are some general guidelines for successful implementation introduction
because cor, clearly corporate mandates aren’t gonna work if you just slam social business
software on people and say put it, put it in there, use this now. How do you get to that organic critical mass
point where people start to see the tools as a help as opposed to a hindrance and how
do you, as someone who’s selling them this product, how do you help cultivate that? Matt Tucker: It’s a very good question. I
think we’ll, we’ll probably all have some tips and tricks to contribute to this. There is a failed assumption that if you turn
on social software, it will just automatically take off like wildfire. There are a few organizations that have a
culture and that are open enough to the way of, this new way of working where that does
kind of happen and you put in, you put in Jive or you put in Socialtext or something
else and it will just kind of take off. But more often than not, that doesn’t always
happen. One of the, there’s a lot of strategies that
you can employ. You do actually need to, to think about it; you need to have a strategy
for rolling it out. Very often we’ll see people have even dedicated
staff that are responsible for let’s, let’s go and reach out to a new part of the organization
and teach them this is a new way of working. It’s like Wave, they have to get it a little
bit before they, they start using it. And just spread it one pocket at a time and
then there will be eventually critical mass and it’ll take over and it’ll spread and there,
there’s a new paradigm, but it’s not always automatic. One of the sort of very specific tactics that
we always suggest is pick something that they get done just using social software. So maybe
it’s a, if it’s a sales person they’re going to, every time they, they go out and do a
customer call they’ll blog about what happened there. And then people will comment on it;
there’ll be some interactions; and they’ll discover alright, there, there is some value
to this. If I put my trip report up in social there, there’s a new set of interactions that
will happen. And so just get very specific about there
is something that I get done everyday using this tool and that starts to shift the mindset
and that can be a pretty key way to get adoption going. Anshu Sharma: Funny – Matt Tucker: Not just always automatic. Anshu Sharma: Funny that you used sales person
example and CRM kind of example. [laughter] Just let me point out that. [laughter] Paige Finkelman: Guys, do you, do you have
any more tips and tricks you’d like to share in, in this, this issue of cultural adoption? We talk a lot about the new work force coming
into play and, and obviously they have consumer experience with the tools and then they come
in and sorry IBM but there’s Lotus Notes as their email client and they’re like, “What’s
going on?” Greg Dawson: So one of the things that I’ve
actually found from talking to a lot of people is that you, you asked a question earlier
of like why would you buy something other than Microsoft Office or other – Paige Finkelman: Or Cisco now, sorry, I forgot
to mention Cisco. Greg Dawson: The reason people are even thinking
about doing these things is they think they can operate better. And so the, the, the issue
is you need to understand where are you currently broken? What are these biggest pain points? Because typically what you can do is you can
find something that is just horrific currently in the company – and I tell you every company
out there has something that is horrific – and usually one of those horrific pain points
can be helped by social software of some sort. And so what you really need to do is find
where that biggest pain point is and then just try to, try to address it. And it usually
doesn’t take long when you try to do that for people to start to understand the value
of it. And then, and then I, I think Matt was absolutely
right is that you need to, you need to start it spreading like it’s not the kind of thing
where you can just mandate that everyone has to start doing this and it will happen. It
won’t; ever. That’s just crazy. Oliver Marks: I’ll back to my earlier point
which is that the sales and marketing people may, may take off like wildfire but because
sales and marketing own this one unique collaboration environment, some other part of the organization
would dig a trench and start a third world war because they don’t wanna use that collaboration
system. That’s the first thing. The second thing is that all the vendors are
selling something new and it’s a bit like that TV show America’s Next Top Model; everybody
conveniently forgets about America’s last top model. It’s just like the previous generation software
they bought which is still sitting around possibly being used. There’s a number of issues there. But I think
that was, that was a perfect point. It’s not hard in large companies to find problems that
need fixing really urgently and I’m often the piñata in meetings between different
factions in the company. They all agree there’s a big, there’s a big problem, but how they’re
actually gonna fix it is, is kind of the, the really tough nut to crack. Anshu Sharma: So I think there’s two things
from my perspective. One is end user training; coming back to my
same expense report example. If you joined a company that used a three letter acronym
company’s software about — even now actually if you’re running 4.7 version, you will find
out that it’s not intuitive to you how do you get in from your, how do you log in, you
have a client how, how do I basically find my expense report; none of that is intuitive.
You don’t always have a link based, Web based metaphor; unless you are running something
which is very latest version. What the Internet has done – New York Times
essentially trains and Amazon trains users to use Salesforce.com because when you know
clicking on a link does something and you are in a CRM system clicking on an opportunity,
you intuitively know it’s gonna do something. So I think the beauty of the Web metaphor
which is what Google has been actually leveraging lately is unlike your spreadsheet system of
earlier era. Intuitively you know how to use a Web browser. And so that’s one part. Same thing is now happening – so that happened
about 10 years ago – the same thing happened in last few years with Facebook, to be honest.
They trained millions and millions of people how to use this new social collaboration software. And we don’t need to go teach people that.
They intuitively understand why it’s useful in their personal life, what are the kind
of things they do. Hey, if I wanna share a piece of content — I am doing a performance
review in my HR department and we have guidelines for our managers that they need to read, I,
and it’s publicly or selectively shareable as long as I have security in sharing systems
in place, which is where enterprise class systems come into play – it’s intuitive to
you. You take your document, whether it’s created
in Google Docs or whether it’s created in an office based system of your, and you upload
it and you don’t have to send an email saying, “In order to understand the following systems
you must go to this system. The login process is as follows; it’s a seven page template.” People understand ‘click’; it will be readable.
Whether it’s a PDF file or whether it’s a Web page. So that whole training cycle that used to
take months and months for people that have ever implemented an ERP system 10 to 15 years
ago, or even a modern ERP system from certain companies; this is a huge paradigm shift. So I don’t think we need to do a lot of work
there; people understand how to use those systems. Ross Mayfield: Just so you know, within this
market adoption has been kind of a classical problem. One way and I think we’ve already
spoken to part of it, but the, there’s two ways or places that you can adopt social software
in the enterprise. It’s either in the flow of your daily work or kind of above the flow
of your daily work. There’s a period in time in our history where
we were doing a lot of kind of above the flow of daily work, let’s build a Wikipedia inside
of the comp, inside of the company. And then we really discovered that when we
embed it in existing processes, in existing work flows, which does require a little bit
of training, you’re developing new information architecture. You’re changing habits, but
it’s easy because you have a real problem that you’re solving; a real business goal;
people understand that’s why I’m changing my behavior. But still the problem is that ends up siloing
itself to a degree. So what Michael Idinopulos who used run McKenzie’s Knowledge Management
Practice and runs our Professional Service Practice does now, is what we call a T-shaped
adoption. We roll out a shallow set of functionality
to a very broad base of users. Ideally it’s already enterprise wide, within the first
couple days. And literally what that is, is we give them
profiles that are about themselves, which you can populate from their directory system.
We host a Webinar, invite everybody in; that Webinar talks about what they’re doing and
in the middle of it they use microblogging as kind of a live chat channel. So they walk away with this kind of shared
experience and they’re using just a little simple thing. It’s just what are you work,
answering what are you working on in 140 characters or slightly more. And the net results of that is: what do you
get? The basics of sharing dynamics across organizational silos; the ability for people
to update status or context in a way that’s richer than your IM system, which is really
just kind of the state of a communication channel. Am I busy? Am I available? And more importantly you get the ability to
have a place to go when search fails. Which is I can, if I have a question and I don’t
know who to ask, I can go and ask it openly and I get answers – try this on Twitter – and
the important thing is I haven’t forced an interruption on anybody. And that’s a very, and so you do that broadly
and then you follow with the base of the T very deeply in these in the flow implementations,
working your way kind of department by department. And partially because the people who are broadly
using it are like, “I kinda get from seeing the way this one department’s using it deeply
and the way we’re using it broadly, how this could maybe be applicable to my business problem.” Because as a vendor we’re not really gonna
know the business problem. It, they’re gonna be the ones who will know it and we’ll work
with them to understand how to adapt a tool to make it fit. Paige Finkelman: So – Raju Vegesna: That example of what are you
working on, by – ‘As Is’ as we are seeing with Twitter, I think it could be useful,
but when it, when we integrate that with say a project management system, that question
becomes more valuable. So what are you working on, so your project
members really know what exactly you’re working on and you can start a conversation right
there. You’re not gonna poke him and ask additional details unless you’re interested in that. But that’s a good way to start an interaction.
So that’s what the contextual integration of these social tools into the business tools
can be really useful. unidentified voice: Great. Yeah. Paige Finkelman: So – no Greg. Greg Dawson: Well, Paige Finkelman: Go ahead. Greg Dawson: So I, I, I think we’ve had a
nice little love-in about social software here. But I think there’s, there’s really
this, this question that a lot of people don’t find social software in, outside of the business
place useful and interesting. A lot of people find, for instance, people
on Twitter talking about what they’re eating for dinner overwhelming. And so they don’t
necessarily feel like they wanna bring that into the workplace because their impression
of social software is it’s wasting time, not that it’s giving you useful information and
potentially saving time in other places of your life. So the question then becomes: how do you sort
of go into these places where they’re like, “Yeah, trying to bring social into my business
is kind of like saying you gonna waste all my employees’ time.” What do you do about
that? Matt. Anshu Sharma: Well you actually do a very
simple thing: you ask – I used to do this many, many years ago when we were just starting
to talk about cloud computing and I had a very simple question I would ask an audience
like this: how many people here use ATM’s to withdraw money? And it would be everybody.
How many people here have ever like deposited a check? Could be about one-third to two-thirds.
And how many people here have ever deposited cash more than hundred dollars? It would be
about like 20 people. And I would say, “You’re my core audience,
in, this is the year 2003-2004 for being able to run your code applications in the cloud.
You are the next circle and you, my friend, will come to me in five years. I think there’s a similar pattern there which
is some people are just not ready today. So if you’ve been following, I don’t know, Britney
Spears all your life on Twitter, you’re gonna have an impression that all social computing
is about using Twitter. I’m sure when telephone systems were introduced,
when email was introduced, people had the same questions. Why would I want an evil kind
of a system at work? That’s gonna be complete waste of time. And I think between Wave, Chatter, Socialtext,
Jive, Zoho, all of us we’re trying to change that mindset. Paige Finkelman: So, so besides the vendors,
Oliver, what do you think? Oliver Marks: Okay, yeah. I mean just one
quick point. Facebook is ubiquitous but I mean I would
question how deeply people actually use it. A lot of people use Facebook to play FarmVille
or whatever it’s called, [laughter] and but very few people have much understanding
of groups as we were discussing before, before this session. So people are unwittingly leaving their lives
open to anybody that wants to sort of wander by their page and has access to it. Same thing
with Twitter, Twitter is supposedly growing exponentially but you look at the number of
accounts out there that are actually being used and it’s a relatively small number. So I mean it is my sort of bread and butter
that I preach every day, but you’ve got to be very clear the word context you used, that
is perfect. I mean anytime you’re deploying any of these technologies, just like any other
tool or technology, you have to be very clear what your intent is and where you’re actually
going with it, rather than just assuming, as Matt was saying, that you’re gonna install
this thing and there’s a sort of a magic unicorn button that you press and all these wonderful
things will happen and people’s minds will change, I mean it just you know – Anshu Sharma: While I respect that kind of
perspective, I would like to challenge it, because it’s a panel discussion after all. [laughter] The reason I’m challenging – Paige Finkelman: The Anshu discussion apparently.
[laughs] Anshu Sharma: Yes. The reason I’m challenging
it is because I don’t find anyone here in the audience saying this cc thing in email
is just terrible, and it’s a terrible waste of, if, if actually you were a CIO and I came
to you and said all email had only one recipient field, or two and you could only send email
one person at a time, and you were using it, you were happy because one person could only
send one email at a time, so there was only so much email going around. And I came and said, “You know what I’m gonna
change this thing, now you can cc people.” And you’d be like, “Oh my god! What does this
mean? I could be ccing 15 people at a time, there would be explosion. This thing is never
gonna work. Our company’s gonna shut down.” And this fear of new features is partially,
actually true and partially, actually false. But irrespective of the, the key is we have
to train and treat with respect our employees that they know how to use features like following
people, by updating status in the context of the work environment, just as we trust
them to use cc, bcc. I can send an email to all of my company and
many of you can too. There are mailing lists which say all at whatever company dot com
and we don’t do that. There is a reason for that. We know that’s a bad idea. You could
get fired. Paige Finkelman: So, Anshu – Anshu Sharma: So, I’ll, I think we’ll learn
to use these modern tools and we’ll be responsible. Otherwise we’d be out of jobs. Paige Finkelman: Anshu, I, I hate to be rude,
but I’m gonna cut you off ’cause I have one last question and then to be respectful of
time I wanna open it up to the audience ’cause I’m sure they’ve been intrigued by what you
have to say. My final question is about the future of software,
the future of applications delivered over the Internet. Now if you attach the word “future” to anything
everyone cringes, but bear with me. [laughs] And this is kind of a scary one and, and we’re
along for the ride to a certain extent in the collaboration market, in the Enterprise
2.0 market. We’re hoping that it’s going to implode, that it will be earmarked on the
CIO’s budget list, but quite frankly we don’t know. So my question is future looking will social
just become a feature and what, what will happen then? Raju Vegesna: Well in the bigger picture,
yes, social becomes one of the important features within your business systems. But again we
think it’s gonna be, future is gonna be about Internet systems so that it’s easy to connect
all these individual systems and then social is, is another system; another layer on top
your business systems. We think that’s gonna be a feature as we look at it. Matt Tucker: No social is not a feature. But
– Paige Finkelman: It’s also the first word
in your product. Social Business Software. Matt Tucker: Yeah. Paige Finkelman: Right? Matt Tucker: So it’s crazy to think that we,
we don’t think it’s just a feature. Wow. No the, this is a new way of getting work
done. And so yes, maybe, maybe we’re in a hype cycle, absolutely. But the fact is my personal life is different;
it’s changed by Facebook and Twitter. I think most of the people in the room would, would,
would say that as well. There was a lot of hype two years, two years
ago about generation Y entering the workforce and it frankly all sounded a bit like B.S.
two years ago. Is this really true? Do they really have different expectations? But fast forward two years; they’re getting
a little more mature in their careers. It is different. They do have different expectations
about how they work together. They have been influenced by these tools and the momentum
is building. And it’s not a fad. It, we’re not going back
to our old paradigms and our consumer lives. It’s not gonna happen in our work lives either. It doesn’t, it’s not gonna be effective to
take the CRM system and add social features or take a, take a content management system
and add social features. It will be a new market and an important market. And that’s why you have giant vendors like
IBM and Salesforce and Oracle and Microsoft doing such big investments in this space,
is, it really is a big deal. That’s why we have this panel today. So it’s not just a feature. How it all plays
out, of course, hard to say. But it, it’s not just we, we took some existing piece of
software, put a little lipstick on, on that pig and called it a day. Paige Finkelman: [laughs] Oliver, yeah. Oliver Marks: Yeah. So I mean the one thing
we haven’t mentioned all night is mobile, which is the fastest growing thing – it’s
growing much more quickly than the Web did. That’s gonna be hugely, that’s gonna be another
wave of enormous change. I mean I think it’s all, this is a very difficult
topic to, to talk about because for some people it is a feature and it’s a, it’s a adjunct
to their CRM system or whatever it is. For other people, depending on what it is they’re
doing it is absolutely the heart and soul and center of the business strategy of what
that company’s trying to do going forward. So very, very variable depending on industry. One other thing we haven’t touched on very
quickly is the space is polarized between legal on one side which tends to really protect
IP and protect intellectual information very, tends to be very secretive. And then at the other polarity, you have manufacturing
companies that like to encourage the world to think that you can actually see deep inside
of their companies and communicate with product managers and practically know people on a
first name basis; making a product inside a company because the company is so transparent
and so on and so forth. So this is a vast, vast topic. So I haven’t
really answered the question – Paige Finkelman: No, I think the, that’s pretty
right on given – no, Anshu. [laughs] Anshu Sharma: Do you want Doctor Wave, Doctor
Wave to answer the future question? Paige Finkelman: Well, I just think that being
the only non-vendor and impartial, impartial when it comes to platform, I think that’s
the most accurate answer we’re gonna get tonight. So I think we might conclude with that answer,
if it’s okay with you. [laughter]>>Thank you, Paige. [applause] Paige Finkelman: So with, with that I think
we’ll invite folks to come up to the mic. I have one question here on, or a few questions
here on Twitter, that I’ll, be, also be asking, but please feel free to step up; state your
name, where’re you’re from and what your question is. Rom: Well, hi. I’m Rom. I live in the Valley. I wanted to get, we, we talked a lot about
Twitter. We talked a lot about Facebook, well and good. I think the conversation was about the enterprise
today. It is real that everybody’s trying to figure
out where the opportunity is; that’s fair. I was wondering from your examples, the vendors
as well as Mark from a holistic perspective, are there examples that you know of, specific
examples where people have adopted a new paradigm and what the use cases? If you are willing
to share that, it’ll be wonderful. So something, somebody’s was using email and
then something else came along, but then the integration was great, or they were using
something else, they had to integrate with email, a use case. One use case was suggested
which is a sales person does a report when they finish. That’s a good example. So I was looking for examples like that. And second question is: what is the CIO or
the CEO’s nightmare that they’re having; that they don’t know where the next Wave is coming
and the company is not adopting it in the culture? So an example would be helpful rather than
a broad generic thing which [unintelligible.] Thanks. Greg Dawson: So I’ll give a, a use case. And
again I, I said this before, I, I, I have trouble defining Google Wave as social, because
I think it really is just about tryin’ to allow people to get things done more quickly
together. I think the best example we have is there’s
a small consulting company that we work with and they, they every month have to do a, a
report for all of the, all of their clients. So, and they’d are, always done it in email.
They’d always written documents in Microsoft Word and each person sort of summarized what
was going on, and then they all emailed them to an intern. And that intern had to collate
all this information together. And then once they pulled all that information together,
they had to resend it out to everyone for approval. And it took ages. And so they, they tried doing that in, in
Wave where people could actually do all of these things together rather than sort of
this, again linear process. And they, they said that the most surprising thing was that
they actually got it done on time which was the first month they’ve ever gotten it done
on time. And secondly, they, they saved about eight
hours. And I think in the end when you’re a 10 person company that does billable hours,
saving eight hours is, is money that you’re making. And so I think the core thing about using
a lot of these types of applications is it’s, how are you going to get things done faster?
Get them, get them done better? And get them done more efficiently, to, to essentially
save your company money. And I think that’s what people are really
driving at and so it’s not about making people feel better about their company, it’s about
actually being able to connect people and allow them do things more efficiently. Rom: Thanks. Oliver Marks: Can I, I’ll just add very quickly
is that you said what’s keeping CIO’s up at night and ironically it’s, they, CIO’s and
security personnel within IT departments have traditionally protected the security of the
company very tightly and are running a very tight firewall. What’s keeping them up at night is the fact
that particularly Google Apps – we’re in the Google building so this is fair play – is
basically being very widely used. So the, the Facebook generation we’ve been
talking about a lot think nothing even on a department, departmental level of whipping
out their corporate credit card and in 30 seconds practically they’re up and running
and in software as a service environment, which is completely outside the guidance and
governance of the company. But they are getting their job done very efficiently.
So people turn, tend to turn a blind eye. And I know of dozens of situations where employees
are damned if they do and damned if they don’t. If get found caught using software as a service
illegally they get fired. If they use the technology they have currently inside the
company they’ll get fired because they didn’t get their job done in time. Rom: Actually my question was the other way
around. What’s keeping CEO’s awake at night that they, a company is not adopting the next
paradigm, it’s the other way around. Oliver Marks: Okay. I think people are, I
think – Rom: There are companies like Kraft and others
and Proctor and Gamble who are trying to adopt these things, I just wanted to get a perspective
of – Oliver Marks: Well that’s the marketing side
of the house which is a very different sort of atmosphere if you like, the one we’re talking
about now which is about, more about internal collaboration. Rom: Okay. CEO’s I think despite all the hoopla are being
quite conservative about this. And to your point are looking for case histories and evidence
of, of this being a substantial advantage to their company before they actually put
money against that. Rom: Okay. Thank you. Matt Tucker: I’ll give a really quick example.
I think there’s maybe two categories that have examples. One is let’s pick something we were doing
before and just use a new paradigm to do it way better; super valuable. The other one is let’s do things that we never
could before. John Deere is one of our customers and they’re
actually relatively innovative for being a tractor company. And something that they,
they used our software to do that they had never done before is connect engineering teams
in different parts of the world. And it was never possible for them to have
really productive email conversations ’cause they didn’t know each other; you couldn’t
just email all of them. And one of the things that they did was shared some information
about, and I think it was the height of a fender on a tractor, and I don’t remember
all the details, but they figured out that it actually saved them two million dollars
to be able to share that information in the specific way that never would have been possible
before. You couldn’t do it with email. And so because of the new tool they were able
to do something brand new and that ended up having a lot of value to them. Rom: So you’re saying Toyota is a candidate
customer for a lot of people. Matt Tucker: Probably. [laughter] unidentified voice: You had another one. Maybe
next question. Paige Finkelman: Well actually I’m gonna ask
a question from the Twitter stream. This was asked: Can social networking replace
business networking in the workplace? Will it ever be as effective as face to face relationship
building? Ross Mayfield: No. Paige Finkelman: We can all say no. I’d say
no. Anshu, you wanna say yes? Anshu Sharma: I’m waiting. Ross Mayfield: My cofounder has been saying
that the time spent face to face is too valuable for work. And especially when you have distributed
teams, this is actually true. Half of our company’s distributed so we fly
people in on a reasonably regular basis to get everybody together. And yes we get through
some work, work, but a lot of it is just forming the right social relationships so they can
be more productive when they have to work more remotely. Paige Finkelman: Uh-hum. You know I worked
in the conference business. I didn’t do a proper job of explaining myself, but I helped
run the Enterprise 2.0 conference which deals with collaborative technologies and I know
these gentlemen from the event that I helped manage. And getting together face to face will never
replace, I mean that’s, I’ve heard it say it’s a little cheesy but it’s the original
sort of social networking. Right? We’re mapping the social graph to the Web
in order to break down barriers of geography and time zones – Oliver Marks: Although Cisco would say with
telly presence technology which is coming on leaps and bounds that you can actually
get, you feel more centered of that sort of reading body language and facial expressions. Paige Finkelman: Sure, sure non-verbal cues,
et cetera, but there’s something about engaging with someone and looking at their face directly,
I don’t think will ever be replaced. We’re human; we’re social objects so – Anshu Sharma: For me it’s very simple. Name
one social networking technology. Going by trains to meet neighbors, airpl, going by
planes to meet people, cars, telephones, email, Internet, none of this ever goes away. The key question we are trying to answer is
in this new Facebook generation are there more productive ways of getting more done
and maybe meet more people, less people? And how do we get more done? So I don’t think anything of the past is just
simply just gonna disappear and it’s very expensive to replace some of these three letter
systems by the way, even if you wanted to. Greg Dawson: So there, there is one example
and I, I totally agree that it’s, that, that face to face is never going to be replaced. But there is one example that we found that
was actually kind of interesting in using Wave where if you have a group of 12 people
who are all trying to talk about a topic all at the same time and they’re in a room together,
you can’t do it very effectively. You need to sort of keep it sequential. Whereas there are tools that you can use now
where you can have a dozen people all carrying on a conversation and have it, and it, have
it be effective and have it carried on. Which I thought was really interesting. Like
I never imagined that we would get to sort of that point where there are tools that are,
that really are better than face to face. And I think there’s a couple examples where
it does work, but not in general. Paige Finkelman: And I, I would concur in
terms of like Type A extrovert personalities and versus a not so extroverted, introverted
person needing to yell to be heard. I can see value in that, in that answer, Greg. That’s
true. Why don’t we have the next question? Hernandez: My name is [inaudible] Hernandez
and I actually have a question for Matt and one for Greg. [pause] So for Matt, you mentioned social network,
social software helps to solve the company’s problems, but I didn’t hear like a concurrent
example other than blogging about a sale or example related to CRM or Sales Software. What about the supply chains, what about the
HCM, what about the issues of deploying the social networks to other countries when even
posting a picture, posting a name, you incur in discriminations, you have a lot of sensitive
data. Could you come up with an example on how this
solution solved the problems in a line to actually the corporate goals? Matt Tucker: Okay, I think I understand the
question except for the part about posting names in different countries and that being
an issue. Hernandez: Well as part of the strategy of
deployment internationally if you sell your, if you sell to John Deere you sell to all
those [inaudible]internationals. So where are the rules that are applied in the United
States, okay but we going to France, Germany – Matt Tucker: Yeah. Hernandez: even posting a name – Matt Tucker: That, that is a really interesting
question and I, so maybe we can dive down on that one and there are a million interesting
examples just answering the other part of your question of different places that social
software is getting used in product management and engineering, in sales and often as a way
to have the larger conversation inside of an organization that’s never been possible
before. So how do you actually connect larger groups
of people? You can’t really do it over email. And you can pick just business problem after
business problem that you can apply social software to. But drilling down on that question, there
is, there are interesting issues around international deployments. So there are different privacy
laws in each country around how do you share profile data. In Germany there is an issue of workers’ councils.
And they have to go through a very rigorous process in order to decide to adopt a new
tool like social and it’s hard to get through that. And there are different cultural norms about
how people actually want to adopt this. And we’ve definitely found that people are a little
bit more ready for social software in the U.S. than they are in most parts of Europe. And so as you are rolling out social – and
we, in particular. target large companies and so we deal with this all the time – and
maybe it’s that the U.S. division that is driving the adoption, but what they’re really
trying to do – Young Brands for example, they wanna connect their folks in China with
the people in the U.S. and yeah, it’s hard and there are different things you need to
do in each country; much more than just make sure it’s in the right language. Oliver Marks: I’ll just very quickly interject
that I think there’s some legislation coming from the European Union pretty soon about
Facebook, about your personal rights on line. And that’s gonna – this is a young industry
as we’ve all been saying – I think that will have a significant impact, impact on all of
this. Ross Mayfield: A real quick thing is when
you roll out to a multi-national, one of the most interesting values that you have is the
ability to start creating much more of a global glossary; to help harmonize a lot of language
of the, the language that people are using. A weird example also is about how vastly different
people use social software because of their cultures, because of their languages. If you look on Wikipedia – we all know the
way that the English Wikipedia works – but let’s say with the Japanese Wikipedia, what
they’ll do is everyone will start writing first on the discussion page and they won’t
touch the article page. And then eventually, and they’ll be collaboratively drafting and
collaboratively drafting and get to a point where they’ll reach consensus and then post
the very first version onto the article page; very different from the way that an American
would just slap an assertion onto the article. Hernandez: Um-hum. [laughter] So thank you very much. The other question is what happened to Google
Wave? I attended some of the first meetings around the headquarters and it was really
hard to understand what is the concept of Google Wave and from a marketing, so what
is the business that you are trying to solve? And even I’m checkin’ on Twitter, there’s
a lot of questions is what is Google Wave? And what is, how come Google Buzz from day
one you get that iteration with the email, you can download some discussions – [laughter] and I don’t know, I mean even Kevin Ross in
Diggnation last month. He still had a question, he didn’t even know what Google Wave was. Greg Dawson: Thank you for asking that. [laughter] So I, I think one of the things to keep in
mind is what we’re trying to do with Google Wave is not something that’s going to happen
overnight. This is not – in trying to build a new way to communicate, this isn’t something
that, that ends up you put it out there in a month and suddenly everybody understands
a different way to communicate. It takes a long time. We knew it would take a long time. Unfortunately,
there was, there was kind of a, I’ll use the term “buzz” of around Google Wave that we
didn’t necessarily try to contribute to, but we didn’t stop. And so what ended up happening is I think
a lot of people felt like, “Wow, Google Wave is a) done”; which it’s not. And b) it’s,
it’s it’s this new social product you have to get on immediately. And so what happened was a lot of people had
sort of mis-set expectations and so what’s, what’s happened is initially there were a
lot of people who, who started using it and then didn’t know what to do with it and so
it settled into people using it who, who, who have found things to do with it; who enjoy
using it. And then that base of users is steadily growing. And so it’s kind of, I have to be honest,
as a product manager on Wave, I’m kind of excited that the hype is over. That, that
there was that sort of a lot of hype going on because a lot of it just wasn’t accurate. So, so in terms of why is, is Google Wave
not in Gmail, whereas Google Buzz was initially. I know I said the term Google like nine times
in the last sentence, but whatever. Paige Finkelman: It’s really good Kool Aid
here. [laughter] Greg Dawson: Yeah, Well – Paige Finkelman: The buzz about Google Wave. Greg Dawson: Guh-Guh-Guh-Guh. So part of that was, was, we are sort of experimenting
with different models of how to launch products. I, I think there’s, there’s a lot to be learned
from trying things in different ways and the way, the way Buzz tried it was go out to everyone
immediately who has a Gmail account and let them have access to it and let them use it. And that had some excellent things that happened
out of it and there were also some, some questions that came out of it. And it’s really, it’s
been fascinating reading a lot of the news articles, that there’s kind of equal parts,
some people are like, “I hate new things being thrown in your face, I like to try it when
I want to try it”, versus people who are like, “Show me the new stuff because I’m not gonna
go look for it.” So I, I don’t know if that’s a great answer,
but the answer is we’re, we’re trying different ways of, of doing some of these things to
see what will work. Hernandez: All your answers are great answers. Paige Finkelman: And quickly I see a few of
you leaving, I just wanted to let you know that there is dessert and coffee in the other
room. We’re gonna break in about 10 minutes, but if you need to stretch your legs – the
White Room? unidentified voice: [inaudible] The what? unidentified voice: [inaudible] Paige Finkelman: Oh there’s wine too. [laughter] unidentified voice: There’s been enough whining
already. Paige Finkelman: Oh, I misspoke. [laughs]
In the wine room, there’s wine in the other room as well as coffee and dessert. So if
you’re, need to stretch your legs go for it. I also wanted to mention that as I already
did I work on the Enterprise 2.0 conference. If you’d like to attend the event, I had our
marketing team set up a code; it’s my name ‘Paige’ – P-A-I-G-E. And if you go to the Enterprise 2.0 Boston
Website you can register for a free expo pass or 15 percent off a conference pass. ‘Cause
clearly you’re interested in collaborative technologies and that’s what we do at, at
Enterprise 2.0. It’s June 14th through the 17th in Boston. So just FYI, I Tweeted it out so, FYI. Yes, sir go ahead. Monna: Hi. I’m Monna from Manymoon, we’re
a leading social productivity application. The discussion is adopt a Wave again. So there’s sites, there’s Softpage, there’s
Buzz and then there’s Wave. What is Google’s enterprise strategy with social media? Paige Finkelman: That’s a great question. [laughter] Anshu Sharma: Never heard that question before. Greg Dawson: We get that a lot but [laughs] Paige Finkelman: Anshu do you wanna answer
that one? [laughter] Greg Dawson: What– you don’t work in Surge
or Google – Anshu Sharma: What he said last time. [laughter] Greg Dawson: So, so I think one of the things
that is, that, that’s a bit challenging is each of these products, and this is, this
is something that I think needs to be improved, is that we are building individual products
that are sort of solving individual product, problems in a, in a sort of, one might argue,
too highly targeted way. So to, to give an example, there is email
as part of Google Apps. And email, while a lot of people think Wave is supposed to replace
email, it’s not. There are times when email is very useful and in fact partly because
everybody, well just about everybody in the world you’d wanna talk to has email. That being said, if you’re trying to do something
and I think the example I gave earlier of that, of that consultative firm that, that
was trying to, to pull together their, their sort of monthly report; that’s hard to do
in email. It’s hard to do in Sights. Frankly, it’s hard to do in docs. There are a lot of these kinds of process
oriented operations that you do with small groups of people that you work with all the
time, that you really just need to be able to get things done quickly, iterate with quickly,
and Wave does that well. Now the, one of the things that happens though
is that so, so we built Wave as kind of this experiment to see how well that works; it
turns out it works well in that situation. Then the next stage is pulling, pulling that
in integrated with a lot of the other products that Google has to actually make it work in
a cohesive way because one of the things that I think so many companies fall down on is
that they expect users to understand all of these products and all these distinctions
and, and the, the sort of the difference between – well and I won’t use any examples on the
panel – but, but the difference between what a blog is versus what a wiki is. And while a lot of people understand that
there are many, many, many times more people in the world who have no idea what these things
mean. And so you have a friend who says, “Hey, I just had a baby and I wanna tell all my
friends about this baby.” They don’t necessarily think, “Oh I should create a blog.” Because
what the hell does that mean? What they think is, “I wanna share this information”
and so then they go and they search for it and they find hundreds of different words,
wikis, blogs, et cetera, et cetera, any of which could be used in these situations. The reason I went on that tangent was because
I think one of the things we need to do is do a much better job of not having to have
people understand what these tools are and the distinction between the tools, but rather
allow people to get the things done they need to get done. And that’s one of the things we are trying
to accomplish with Wave is rather than, I’m going to, I need to, I need to talk to my
sales team, so I’m going to go to this one application. You start a Wave with it and
that Wave can then morph and become what you need it to become and the more it’s integrated
with the other applications – both at Google and outside Google – I mean we are open sourcing
Wave and we’re doing that for a reason. We think it’s a good technology and it’s a
good platform that people can build on top of to be able to, to have these things integrate.
So you’re able to just get started and trying to do something rather than have to think
through like what’s the product I need? How, where am I going with this, et cetera, et
cetera. Monna: So if I hear you right you’re saying
that Wave is a destination that you wanna go to and then everything else falls into
that. When I wake up in the morning and I get my
cup of coffee and I’m, and I’m looking at email, instead of looking at email do you
want us to look at Wave? Is, is that, is that what – unidentified voice: We want you to look at
your browser. [laughter] Monna: Critical social facts. Paige Finkelman: There – Greg Dawson: Could be a conversation what
do you look at first thing in the morning? No, but in some ways yes. Is it going to be
Wave and it is gonna be the interface that Wave currently has? We have no idea. But I think in the end forcing people to go
into their browser and then choose the one of 35 sites they wanna go to is not success,
I think in the Web. And so as it, as all of us need to get better at that. Monna: Thanks. Paige Finkelman: So I think we can all beat
up Greg after the panel. Greg Dawson: You can try, I’m tough. Paige Finkelman: But, so one more question
to close it out. female audience member: I have a question
too. Well actually I wanted to sort of challenge
the panel because I’m not buying it and I’m not drinkin’ the Kool Aid so much. But I’d
like to play devil’s advocate. And I do understand that collaborative software
is extremely important and I do understand that there are certain applications. I’ll
give an example of Google Calendar, where I wanna work with people all over the world
and we’re tryin’ to plan let’s say a trade show and meet ups so – we can use this but
we’re going there for a purpose not because it’s like you’re saying about Wave. Not because
we love social media, we love chatting and all this kind of stuff. And so I would say that these examples of
Twitter, Facebook, LinkedIn are all very specific examples that have had very specific uses. For instance, I think that Twitter’s replaced,
has, has done a wonderful job of creating two-way communication between news organizations
rather than just having AP News or something go out and running headlines and then journalists
picking up on this and finding sources. Now it’s become very popular to be a two-way
communication between live TV, it’s very immediate. And also politically, reporting on Mumbai
or reporting on what’s happening in Iraq and being a force for social change. Those have
been very successful. People who wanna collaborate on stock market,
very immediate things. So there’s particular tasks that Twitter is good for, not necessarily
a whole business. And Facebook, I think, is really a, a community
where in a, in a diverse world where kids are now in many places around the world and
have been to high school together and gone away. And for many of us it’s more of a community;
a way to sorta keep – Anshu Sharma: But is that your own experience
or is that everybody’s experience in the room? Because I would challenge that question completely
and say I don’t use Twitter to track news or publish news at all. I use Twitter to talk
to my customers, for example, and find out if they are enjoying the latest release of
my product. There are other people in this room who are
using Twitter simply to deal with their family members and – woman from audience: I would say that would
be a two-way communication that’s very short, I just – Anshu Sharma: Yeah, exactly so is email. So
I think to, to summarize this from my perspective, I think we’ve all consensus on this as social
software just can’t be this amorphous tool. For Salesforce for example it’s very specific.
We want people within the enterprise boundaries and outside of eventually in a controlled
manner to be able to engage in conversations that are purpose driven and engaged with your
business, existing business application so that you can actually do your work. And a friend of mine created this term called
“BRP” which I love. It’s called Barely Repeatable Processes. So there’s a lot of ERP systems
and other systems that make your repeatable processes work very well, but there are lots
of things that you need to get done for which we don’t have a repeatable process based system
because I’m not gonna invest half a million dollars in building that system. In that case, I need to choose a communication
pattern that’s most appropriate — in certain cases it’s picking up the phone, but we strongly
believe that there’s a new paradigm; and I call it a Facebook paradigm which we’re leveraging
with our Charter product line to introduce a new way for businesses to get certain kinds
of business done. And all of us have a different slightly take
on that, but that’s basically what we’re trying to help you enable. Paige Finkelman: Yeah. I think, I think he’s,
if I’m understanding you correctly, I mean obviously there’s an intention with every
technology that exists woman from audience: Right. Paige Finkelman: and that’s why it’s successful. Similarly, we’re, in the enterprise we’re
mimicking successful consumer tools to achieve ultimately a business objective; a business
goal and not just be social for the sake of being social, and, and that sort of fluff. I think the vendors represented in the panel
all have a stake in the game, otherwise they wouldn’t be here. I know Jive over 2008 I wrote down this quote,
or this stat. Matt Tucker. let me know if this is true. You, in 2009 you were up 85
percent over 2008. Is that right? Matt Tucker: Sounds right. Paige Finkelman: That’s some special sauce.
So, so clearly they’re accomplishing some business objective. woman from audience: Yeah. So the next – one
of the things Matt Tucker: I think we it probably – woman from audience: that I would just suggest
and I thought you were one of the best speakers, by the way. One of the things that I would,
in terms of talking about testimonials and, and case studies and use examples, I think
that what I was hearing, just hearing from a lot of people was a lot of, a lot of, “Oh,
social media’s great. Collaboration’s great. This is a new technology. You’re gonna learn
to click.” What I really want to hear what exactly that
kind of thing. What are the examples of how you – Anshu Sharma: We have several examples woman from audience: Okay. Anshu Sharma: and I could spend hours and
hours with you and as I said – Paige Finkelman: There’s also a, there’s something
called the 2.0 Adoption Council that Susan Scrupski runs. If you go on SlideShare just
do a quick search you’ll find a million and one adoption examples, case studies, et cetera. Anshu Sharma: And actually there’s a social
networking event and some of these people I can guarantee you are using these kind of
tools today to achieve certain business objectives. And you can come talk to us and we can each
tell you – woman from audience: Well I’m okay. I can
imagine what all those things are. I just was suggesting that it would have been for
me a more useful conversation if you would’ve spoken more about examples, use studies and
testimonials because it just sounds like, “Oh it’s” so – [many people talking at once] Paige Finkelman: You don’t have to – perhaps
we could ask the panel. Oliver Marks: Let me just respond to that
really quickly ’cause all of the vendors have glittering examples of why you should buy
their technologies and if you invite a sales person from any of the companies on this panel
along, they will amaze you with how tractors were to save two million dollars or whatever
– woman from audience: I’m sure. I’m just saying
it would have been nice if this panel – Paige Finkelman: So, so potentially for the
next IIT panel if there’s interest in doing a more sort of salesey, adoption, customer
story, we could have half customers, half vendors, that might make – [inaudible] Paige Finkelman: Okay, Oliver. Oliver Marks: [inaudible] we all speak geek
speak here. And the reality is that Micksi—I don’t know if you’ve heard of it – Micksi
is enormous in Japan. That’s all anybody uses in Japan. High 5 is enormous in, in other
parts of Asia. Facebook is, is broadly speaking a Western
European and North American phenomenon. And – Anshu Sharma: Orkut is big in India and Brazil
by the way. Oliver Marks: Yeah, exactly. So I mean you’ve
got, you’ve got to all these different – one of, one – I’ll make this quick ’cause I know
we, we wanna wrap up. But there, a lot of people think that making something in their
own image is going to actually scale up and work for the rest of the planet is, is a simple
way of putting this including the vendors. So, so that’s a big issue right now. Paige Finkelman: Yeah. Well thanks, Oliver. So quick round of applause for the panelists. [applause] And for yourselves for being here. [applause] And to the gentleman that put together IIT,
Google, everyone. There is an announcement you’d like to make?
Go ahead. Monishi Sanyal: I just wanted to thank the
panelists, all the panelists. It was a great discussion. Thank you, Paige. You can follow
our blog at Enterprise 2.0. On behalf of the IIT Madras Alumni Association
we just wanted to thank all of you and hope that your attendance will be an entirely repeatable
process. [laughter] [applause] Yeah, please help – I also want to thank all
the volunteers; thank Google, especially Mutu and Holly and all the alumni who helped us
line up these, this wonderful round of this panel and also a special round of applause
to Kartek and Golshek for – [applause] [techno music playing]